Say, uh... I noticed that at freighters, it says that now ADVANCED Spaceship Command is required at level 5, but if you look at the before and after skilltrees, there isn't any difference. You need Spaceship Command 5 and Advanced Spaceship Command 1 to fly freighters now and apparently after the change.

Figure there'll be some people letting out a sigh of relief ;P

(This may have been covered in the 17 pages I didn't read but in case it wasn't specifically...)


CCP DEVS "If you can fly it today you can fly it after."


QUESTION - I noticed the new HIC, and Interdictor skills and command ship skills ..... Does this mean that if we can fly it today, after the patch we will have the new prerequisites given to us? (i.e. Grav. physics 4, information leadership 5, etc etc)

I'm curious, as I've never played through a period of skill-changing relevant to my current trained skills before.

How is reimbursement handled, mechanically speaking? Will I wake up after Patch day maintenance with Destroyers X & Battlecruisers Y gone and, replaced with the appropriate new racial skills to fly all those I could fly before hand. Or are we reimbursed in the form of redistributable skill points? If it is the former then I'm not sure reimbursement is quite the correct verb, but fair nuff.

I think I'd prefer the latter on the basis that if this change is to enable specialisation then receiving SP to distribute back into my skill tree would allow me further specify by only injecting back into my chosen race, and use the excess SP to push me further along that race's progression.

"Removal and refund of all Destroyers and Battlecruisers skill books at the NPC order price."

So, massive headaches = 990,000 ISK refund.

Stop the pretense of doing us favors.

I would like to see any confirmation from CCP about this point. I doubt because I cant imagine a char that has no racial frigate skills at level 3 but destroyer skill trained. Same goes for battlecuisers skill. Which makes literally no one eligable for skill points refund if your POV is correct.

From your point of view, there would be no need to aquire skills for anything. Just let players of any age fly whatever they want, that would sort out your ISK sink. Eve has been known for being hard and not pandering to the casual player who wants everything now. Being able to fly caps SHOULD be hard and take time. The changes to Cap requrements are just dumb.

The concept of skill progression is what EVE is built on. I can understand the reason behind some of the changes, even though CCP have contradicted themselves in the Dev Blog, but that's another story.

You mention non-beneficial time being compared with adding difficulty. I have no idea what you mean by 'adding difficulty'.

I do not believe that retaining Battleship 5 as a pre-req is non-beneficial. Most Cap pilots will also be flying Battleships from time to time, and this level of BS 5 will be beneficial to them in these cases.

It is not the same as being a Super pilot, where the skill set only applies to that ship, as you cannot leave it (unless you use a holding char).

Hi, i have a small question to the future skill change.

When i can fly all Command Ships, i would get 4 racial BC Skills and them at lvl5. But they change the secondary
requirements of the Command Ships.

So would i also get those Skills reimbursed so that i could fly the cs again or is it only the BC Skill.
Interdictors/ Heavy Interdictor would be the same case.

Hope i can get an answer, preferred official of course

Thx

if so when and where havent seen it, thx for the help

Has CCP considered that this skill change for carriers makes attribute remapping extremely cumbersome? the need to train JDO before the actual carrier skill means that there has to be an additional Int/per remap wedged before the Per/will remap needed to train carriers itself. As such it becomes much more difficult to say, convert a freighter alt into a carrier alt, as you would have to first remap into int/per to train up the jump skills.

Or say, a player who has decided to train for carriers from his existing battleship would need to remap twice to avoid losing upwards of 17 days of training time.

While i understand CCP wants to gate player ship progression to an extent, please also realize your current attribute system is poo and most of the skill changes described for tech 2 ships might increase the training time needed to get into those ships because your Training time estimates made no distinction between INT/MEM skills and PER/WILL skills.

What this does mean is that a dedicated training alt will be able to fly tech 2 ships even faster than progressing "mains" as they can afford to stay on a INT mem remap longer to train up the Tech 2 pre reqs.

Always those wisecrackers that apparently never even used Evemon.

Please genius, show me how you are planning to move from battleship (and consequently a PER/WIL mapping) to the new carrier skill within a year without spending a bonus remap. I'm even being unrealistically generous and assume you can immediately spend your free remap since you have been skilling with that PER/WIL remap for a year.

And no, you are not allowed to assume that you skilled jump drive for your battleship!

Now, FC's will have to have the char's entire skillset examined to see if they are fit to fly the ship the pilot shows up in, because guess what CCP, just because someone can climb into the cockpit of a BS and turn the key, does not mean they have any business near that hull.

Yes, in that context you are right. But hear me out.

A character's usefulness is measured by the things he can do, which comes from skill point. Those are accumulated by training. That takes time. Does not matter how much you play, do not get 'XP' to spend, can not use in-game currency to buy more skills. A character started 5 years ago will always have a 5 years advantage.

So a new player has to specialize. Make a plan, calculate time and skill points to archive what he wants. Re-maps, implants ... If you change the rules mid-flight, that "now you need that, not this" will hurt them.

Yes, the changes are logical, more streamlined ship progression, prerequisites that make sense - those are good. I guess you guys need more T2 destroyer hulls now as everyone has the skill at 5 (I do not, got more important things to train) but that is progress. Lowering the Orca training time by a month? That is stealing a month of subscription from me.

Its not that I made a mistake in my training plan, or did not pay attention and trained destroyer and battlecruiser skills to max to gain a lot of free skill points. I did everything right and still lost a month of training time toward what I want.

No, don't be a troll.

All of these changes have thrown my skill planning into havoc and I have lost weeks of training while neural mapped wrong.

Trolls will be trolls, I guess.

I think it would be obvious to any non-troll that seeing 43 pages of comments in this thread alone and 108 pages of comments on the original post on the subject (and countless other posts and threads) that I don't give a rat's tushy about a couple skill books lying around.

I don't have any of these skill books lying around. Ok?

Actually it mostly collides with their 'if you can fly it now..' policy, which might be the main reason for not doing things in a sensible way.

Sadly.

From the dev blog post: "If, for some odd reason, you have Destroyers and/or Battlecruisers skills, but have no Racial Frigate/Cruiser 3 at all, then the skill points will be moved in the free allocation pool when the old skills are removed."

Just want to make sure I understand this. Say I have Min Frig 4/ Min Cruiser 4 and Destroyers/Battlecruisers to 5 and no other racial frig/cruiser skills trained up. Will I end up with a bunch of "free" skill points that would have otherwise gone into racial battlecruisers had I trained those racial frig/cruiser skills?

Given that this is a computer game we are talking about here and that the value we paid for is not the licence for the ship, but being able to log in to use CCP's service and making decisions based on the rules of this service, we should get the chance to revise our decisions based on the new rules of their service. That is all there is to it and nothing more.

No.

Now about reimbursement stuff: While it still kind of sucks to have skill levels not being a prereq anymore on a personal level for various reasons, looking at the overall scheme of things I would prefer if CCP just made a clean cut, have prereqs for old and new players the same and ditch their "what you could fly before you will after" theme (which e.g. stopped CCP to make freighter 5 a prereq for JF, because they would need to reimburse minimum 32 days worth of skillpoints) . I believe this to be much better for the longterm health of EVE, what actually changed my mind on my reimbursement stance.

Yeah, I guess people would be pissed short term. But long term health seems more important to me. And the need to retrain would not disable people to fly stuff - and thus detract health - if notified in time.

Especially now that the new prereqs are quite useful and most people have them trained or get additional use for the additional training anyway.

I see.

Long term health for me would be that all players have the same requirements to fly any given ship. Having players with different skills being able to fly a ship means that iterating on skill changes will be a pain and might thus end up pushing CCP into corners they do not want to be in, even more than now.
Making something harder to iterate on later due to unpredictable situations and thus harder to adapt, is bad for the health of the piece of software EVE Online is. It's basic programming 1o1 if you ask me and should thus be prevented at all cost to minimize future blockades. This is not always possible to notice in time of course, but pretty obvious in this case.

E.g. we could end up with people being able to fly all t2 cruisers, with no skillpoints at all in any racial cruiser to take it to an extreme (loosing skillpoints by being podded. Hey, we could even create e.g. freighter chars with skillpoints in nothing more than the freighter itself and advanced spaceship command 1 only, without having skillpoints in spaceship command or ORE Industrial by podding our chars to oblivion as long as we have the skillbooks injected. That is bad, because we never know what the players will do.


Edit: Pardon me, actually not possible with cruisers, because they specificly state racial cruiser 5 as primary prereq. But you could still loose the destroyer skills etc. Still unpredictable as hell.

woohoo another update, its not like we dont have enough of them

I just want to make sure I've got this right:

The skill "Marauders" will stay in the game with the same multiracial functionality that it has now?

CCP Ytterbium takes part in both POS revamp and this venture.
But do you mean to say the skill tree is properly fixed now? And you refuse to agree that capital part of the tree is a nonsense?

What of those like me, who has BC lvl 5 (or almost though), but dont wanna have say Caldari BC lvl 5.

Shouldnt we have a chance to choose what ships we wanna skill for and get an reimbursment for those we dont?

I'm glad you read the part where I put:



And yes, that does include removing it from the Racial Cruisers as well.

Why the need to even break down the destroyer skill into Racial ones only screams of CCP getting ready to Implementing more future changes so every Ship class is eventually broken into Racial Skills

I.E. Amarr Command Ship skillbook, Gallente Marauder skillbook, Minmatar Logistics skillbook, Caldari Heavy Assault Ship skillbook.. Getting the picture yet?

or to break it down even simpler - How to pad out & extend the game life to keep newer players coming back for more after the skill change goes live by making the time it takes to get into a new set of ships even longer.

Doesn't take a genius to work out what they're doing... Or maybe it does

Hey, now it really makes sense. It is still more than 6.2 mil SP (around 7.5) but far from 10 mil=)
Thanks for ur view of the matter)

Hm... With all these discouraging eye-opening comments I still wonder where these 6 mil SP come from.